Brick-Mortar-Cloud Podcast
Season 2 Episode 9:
More Than Just Prata: How Guna Built With Purpose and Heart

Host: How did you get started with Prata Place? There are so many types of restaurants in Singapore – what brought you onto this path 20 years ago?

Guna: Actually, from a very young age I’ve been in this line because my parents are in it. My parents and my brothers run Casuarina Curry.

So from a very young age, we were the free labour. I always wanted to avoid F&B, so I got my degree, then my second degree, and worked four years in the corporate world. Then I realised… I think I’m meant to make pratas.

Host: Can you share a bit more about that journey? What did you study, and after four years, what happened?

Guna: My first degree was from NUS – psychology and sociology.

Host: Double major?

Guna: Yeah. At that time double major was actually the easier one. The single major route was for the smarter people, so don’t get the wrong idea.

At the same time, I was doing my accountancy degree, which I started during my army days. After NUS, I took another year and finished accountancy.

I worked two years in an audit firm – I didn’t like it. Then I switched to the Ministry of Education and was an admin manager for two years – also didn’t like it.

I had very good advice from my principal then, Mr Zayed. He said, “I think you’re not cut out for this admin world.”

Host: He told you that directly?

Guna: Yes. I’ve always been very thankful for that. He said, “You can talk to people. You should do something more people-related.”

So I went back to what I knew best. I took a loan from my parents and my brothers and we started The Prata Place. After a few years, we changed the name to Springleaf Prata Place because it matched the road nearest to us. And we’ve not looked back since.

Host: Super. So for the last two decades, how has the expansion been? How many outlets are you operating and what concepts do you have?

Guna: Currently, we have 14 outlets.

I personally don’t believe in having too many concepts. Do one thing you’re very good at and keep going at it. At some point you hit saturation, and maybe it’s time to stop expanding.

For the first five outlets, it was much easier to break even. After that it got more difficult. Now it’s pretty tough to break even, so we’re more careful about where we open. We’re not so overconfident that we can open anywhere and assume Springleaf will make it.

So we do a 3 km / 5 km radius check, look at where we’re not close to our other outlets, and expand accordingly. I think we have another four to five outlets at best in Singapore, then we’re done locally. After that, it’ll be regional expansion.

Host: What are your thoughts beyond 20 outlets?

Guna: We’re exploring Malaysia, partly because the government keeps nudging us towards overseas expansion. But I’m keen on Malaysia also because it opens up a gateway of suppliers.

We’re looking at where we can save on cost locally by buying directly from Malaysia and bringing it in. That’s one avenue to cut costs, because in Singapore, costs are a major, major issue. We’re looking to cut every single cent – it matters a lot going forward. Everything is getting more expensive.

Host: One question I had: not many people know that your family also runs other prata shops and brands. Why didn’t you just join them? Why did you choose to do your own venture instead of helping the family?

Guna: Actually, we started together. The Prata Place was started as a collaboration between myself and Casuarina Curry.

We lasted a few months. I think there was a difference in ideology. They’re more laissez-faire, more relaxed, a family-style restaurant. I like to stick to what I’ve studied – accounting, how many hours we work, if you work more you should be paid OT.

Because it was a joint project, I felt if we weren’t aligned, something would break. I wouldn’t say we didn’t see eye to eye, but I felt family is far more important than business.

We had an open talk. I told them, “Either you all run it, or I’ll run it.” They said, “You run it.” In fact they gave it to me. They said, “You just run, it’s okay – only pay back the financial input we put in.”

But I told them, at that time really, I said, “One day I will be bigger than you.” That was the kind of youthful attitude. I said, “I don’t want you to ever say you gave me this place for free.” So I took two years to pay back whatever I’d borrowed.

My dad said, “I don’t need it, you’re my son.” I told him, “Father, I can take free meals. But my brothers? No.”

We still do purchases together, so we have economies of scale. And importantly, my two brothers are Liverpool fans. I’m an Everton fan.

In a family, if you have a Liverpool fan and an Everton fan in the same house, it’s crazy. There’s only one Everton fan – me – the rest are all Liverpool.

Host: Crazy, crazy. I think you need a promotion every time Liverpool lose a game – free prata!

Guna: But to be honest, when Liverpool beat Barcelona 4–0, we were the first outlet to give four free pratas to all Liverpool fans. Because respect has to be given when it’s due, and that was a major win.

Host: Kudos, kudos. My team member Will is at the back, off-mic, laughing like mad because he’s a Liverpool fan and he enjoys this kind of banter.

But I think one thing you guys do really well at Springleaf Prata is that you capitalise on marketing trends and current affairs – football, news, etc. One of my favourite dishes is the Eggs Benedict–style prata. How did you come up with that, and this whole marketing maestro vibe? Where did it come from?

Guna: Usually from my holidays.

The first year, we did the Ultimate Murtabak with Dr Leslie Tay from “ieatishootipost.” We wanted to bring murtabak to the next level. So we added more decadent ingredients – fresh portobello mushrooms (everyone else was using canned mushrooms), mozzarella cheese, tandoori chicken… everything a bit different. We realised it was sellable.

The following year, we did the Murtaburger because I love Ramly burger, and that gave us the idea.

The third year, I was in Australia. I still remember having poached eggs on toast, sitting on a high chair, and I thought, I have to bring this into prata. So we did Eggs Benedict–style prata.

Until today, we still poach our eggs to order. We don’t poach and keep them in the chiller.

Host: That’s crazy.

Guna: A lot of cafés will poach, keep them, and then reheat. We don’t. We keep the water hot on the stove, and when the order comes in, we crack the egg, spin the water, and take it out fresh.

Host: I’m super impressed. I didn’t know you make the eggs to order. So the mistakes aren’t pre-made – and the way you position the brand is more fun, more innovative, one step above a normal prata shop. Would you agree?

Guna: I think more and more shops are picking things up. You have to be current. But at the same time, I always say this: if you can’t make your basic plain prata well, you can’t call yourself a prata shop.

Fundamentals come first. You don’t forget your roots.

Even the number of turns on the hot plate matters. If you keep turning, you get a soggy prata with a lot of oil. So the number of turns, the heat of the hot plate – all this is important.

Host: So you train your staff, like: okay, cannot be more than X number of turns?

Guna: Yes. We have quality control.

We have what we call a “board” that shows the sizes of all the different pratas. Now we’re exploring AI. We’re looking at AI CCTV cameras that measure distance and detect whether your prata is the right size.

Hopefully by 2026 we’ll have it. We want to be the most consistent prata in Singapore. As you open more shops, every staff member needs to follow the same ethos and basic principles.

Usually, we promote our prata man from the first restaurant. After a few years there, we promote him as a senior prata man to the new outlet. Our growth is quite organic.

Staff who’ve worked with me four to five years and share the same heartbeat, we make them junior partners in the new outlet. We freeze their salary at their last drawn salary, and then: first year 10%, second year 20%, third year onwards they draw 30% of the profits.

Host: That’s crazy – in a good way. That’s real leadership: succession planning, scaling outlets, and bringing people in as partners.

Guna: I always say it’s because I’m lazy – this works better.

Host: I’ll take your version, but it sounds a lot nicer than “lazy.”

Really awesome. People always quote the Hai Di Lao example – profit sharing with outlet managers. You’re doing something similar in a prata context, scaling to 14 going on 20 outlets. That’s really commendable.

These people you choose as partners – are they all long-serving staff? How do you pick them?

Guna: There are two factors. Length of service does show how we’ve valued them, but that’s not enough. Some have been with us long, but they don’t have the aptitude.

We’ll still take care of them, but we can’t make them partners. Some staff tell me, “I’ve been here so many years,” and I’ll be very frank.

I’ve lent some of my Indian staff money to buy land, to build their house – but I still cannot make them partners because then my money will go down the drain. They just don’t have the aptitude. It is what it is.

Sometimes it’s difficult to say, but you have to.

Host: I love the directness. Being objective and direct is actually being kind – ruthlessly kind. You could say, “You can do it, you can do it,” but if they really can’t, it’s going to be painful.

Guna: I always tell my staff I’m not the best boss, not the worst boss. I’m somewhere in the middle. If you don’t like me, just give me your one-month notice. We’ll still be friends when we meet outside. Just don’t leave me in the lurch.

But once you leave, the chances of coming back are almost impossible.

Host: That’s a really good management and leadership story. Running a business is tough.

Apart from COVID, which everyone talks about, what’s the biggest challenge you’ve overcome in the last two years?

Guna: I’m not too sure. Challenges are always there. My attitude is: if there’s a problem, let’s solve it. If it’s not solvable, then maybe we should leave the game.

Some people keep complaining: “Manpower is a problem, manpower is a problem.” It will always be a problem. What can we do about it? If it’s really that bad, why are you still in the business?

Maybe they’re hoping the government will give better quotas. When it comes, we’ll be ready to react, to maybe switch more to foreign employment. But until then, it is what it is.

So we drive towards technology to solve problems. In our small central kitchen, three staff are able to cook for up to 20 restaurants.

Host: Super.

Guna: Because the machines are big, there’s a lot of automation, and our spices are all pre-measured. Even I can cook there – I actually can’t cook curries, I can only make prata, mee goreng, and thosai – but in my shop I can “cook” curry because of SOPs and measurements.

Everything is pre-measured. Going forward, we’re hoping to employ more PWDs (people with disabilities) in the cooking process too.

We’re moving towards a fully electrical kitchen – no open fire, less heat, because electrical equipment has better insulation. Currently, about 35% of our kitchen staff are PWDs.

Every single prata dough at Springleaf Prata Place is made by someone with autism or special needs.

Host: That’s amazing. Creating meaningful employment while feeding Singaporeans with amazing prata – thank you for doing that.

Guna: And they can maintain the quality. If anyone is thinking of hiring them, reach out to Autism Resource Centre, managed by SG Enable. They’re fantastic and always go out of their way to help restaurants and kitchens willing to give PWDs a chance.

Host: We talked about weaknesses, challenges, and all that. What’s one initiative you did that was very successful – something other F&B owners can learn from?

Guna: If you plan to expand, remember something my brother told me: the pie is big. You just need a slice of it to be happy in life.

So that’s what we do – we share a slice with our staff as we open more outlets. They have a share in the new outlet.

Going forward, we’re setting a minimum profit we need. Anything above that, a portion will go back to the rest of the employees as well.

I believe the more you give, the more you make. But of course, first you must be afloat. If you’re not afloat, it’s a different ball game.

Do your numbers well. Keep your food costs low. Some people outsource everything because it’s easy, but then the costs add up.

In our place, initially we did everything in-house. As we became more stable, we looked for some OEM items – but still 90–95% of what we do is in-house.

Host: In your central kitchen?

Guna: Yes, central kitchen. Even our hollandaise sauce is done in-house.

If not, you cannot have two to three staff cooking for 14 restaurants. Central kitchen is the way to scale.

Host: Awesome. What’s one failure you had to overcome? Any painful lessons in your journey?

Guna: Many. I’m the kind who gets excited and just says, “Let’s try.” I do a small mental calculation – what’s the maximum loss I can make, can I bear it – then we carry on.

We’ve tried a few stalls. We are not good at running stalls. We’ve always failed at stalls – kiosk-type concepts, coffee shop stalls.

I don’t remember them much because I’d rather remember the successes.

Restaurant-wise, we’ve not really failed. There are some where we didn’t make exorbitant profits, so we closed them. But until now, I’m glad to say we’ve not lost money on our restaurants. For stalls, we’ve failed a lot.

Host: Why do you think? Coffee shop prata stalls seem common in the heartlands. Why couldn’t you make it work?

Guna: I’ve never bothered to deeply analyse, but one reason could be drink margins. In a coffee shop setting, sometimes you can’t sell your own teh tarik, so you lose that profit centre.

Also, utilities and gas can be higher, so operational costs go up compared to a full restaurant.

Host: That’s interesting. Drinks are a huge part of the prata experience – teh tarik, kopi, etc. There’s good margin there; respectfully, it’s a profit driver that helps offset higher food costs.

Meats are expensive, margins are lower, prata has decent margin.

Can you share roughly what food cost ratio a prata place can aim for, if it’s not too sensitive?

Guna: We always try to maintain food cost at about 30% for overall food. After all ups and downs, we aim for 27.5%–32.5%. Most of the time, we’re around 31%.

Theoretically, you can hit 29%, but we also have to control staff. Sometimes we randomly stop them when they’re taking cheese for the prata, put it on the weighing scale, and check if it’s within range.

We train our partners to do this too. We have a retired SFA officer who does checks as well.

Also, our accounts are out by the 15th of the following month. We look at costs and keep advising and working with the partners. If someone’s cost is very high, we sit down and spend more time with them.

Host: Personal interest question – are margins on prata better than margins on teh tarik?

Guna: No way. Drinks are tough to beat. Sometimes your cost can be 10% – like if you sell at $1, cost is 10 cents.

Of course, that’s before labour. Prata takes more effort, time, and cooking. Even for drinks, when we do food costing, we don’t factor labour – that complicates everything.

Host: Let’s move to KPIs and metrics. You mentioned food cost ratio and that your team is very metric-driven – P&L by the 15th.

What are some metrics you track across your 14 outlets, outlet by outlet, week by week?

Guna: Week by week is too time-consuming.

I have a team of seven people in India – that keeps costs low. My Singapore accountant wanted to resign when she got married, so I told her, “Open an office there, we’ll push work to you.” It’s much cheaper.

They do the accounts. She monitors and pushes out the reports.

We look at per person income generation. Most importantly, we track gross profit margin.

The rest – rent, etc – is a bit beyond your control. We just know, at this rent, how much sales we need to hit. Cost is within our control, so we work closely with partners.

We’re not annoyed if an outlet’s net profit is low but the gross margin is healthy – then it’s more of a marketing job to drive sales.

We also do workplan seminars and mid-year reviews. If everything is going according to plan, we might skip the mid-year one.

We track revenue, food cost, and also labour – within certain percentage targets. Same for utilities and rent. Using these markers, we work towards a target net profit margin.

I’m an accountant by training, so I love numbers. I’m a numbers person.

I sometimes advise my nephew, who opened a new restaurant, Oso Prata – runs in the family. We do accounting services for him and give him reports. He said, “Now I know exactly where I’m going wrong.”

Sometimes it’s worth spending a bit to hire someone to do your accounts, because building an in-house team early is expensive. Unless you have the time and energy to do accounts yourself, outsourcing can give you clarity.

Numbers matter most. You can do all the sales, but if you’re not making money, something is wrong. It’s important to know where.

Host: 100%. The numbers tell you the story – what to do more, what to do less.

On rent: I see many of your locations in the heartlands. How do you prioritise rental decisions? Higher rent with great footfall, or lower rent and you rely on brand and marketing?

Guna: Our first outlet is a shophouse. We followed that model for a while – out-of-the-way areas, but with some parking. Car park is important. KPI: car park.

We believed the brand could pull customers in. For the first outlet, we had no car park. Until today, I thank the Lord for giving us customers.

Our second outlet was at Jalan Tua Kong – lots of car park, but every night it was empty. Even my agent asked, “Are you sure?” I said, “This is perfect. I’ve got car park lots; I think I can pull in customers.” Within the first month, Saturdays and Sundays were full.

Our third place was at Rail Mall. At that time it wasn’t buzzing yet. I liked the location – old shophouse feel, but no flats above. We took it.

So initial expansion was all like that: quiet places, lower rent. After a while, you run out of quiet places, so you move into more expensive malls.

Our first mall was Junction 10. It’s under Far East Group, under another name. They’re fantastic to work with – very interactive. They assess your business and allow some negotiation.

Another landlord – I won’t name them – sent us a renewal saying, “This is what we’re asking. Please note there is not much room for negotiation.” That was… direct.

But when we sat down and talked, they weren’t that hard. They did negotiate and come down a bit. It is what it is.

When signing contracts, I like three years plus another two or three years, with rent cap increments of maybe maximum 10%. That gives you five years to cover renovation costs.

If after three years they raise rent a lot, you can’t just leave because a new place will cost another 150–200k to renovate and you reset the break-even.

From my first landlord, I learned something – I didn’t even ask, but he said, “To make you safe, I will guarantee the next three years at not more than 10% increase.”

We’ve been trying to put similar clauses in, but landlords are more aggressive now. So you see many shops closing, but also many shops opening. It is what it is. We’re not going to expand as aggressively anymore.

SAFRA clubs are very good for us; their KPI is more on footfall, so rentals are manageable. We’re also looking at community clubs – same reason. They have a social element, not purely profit-driven.

But for the rest of you listening – don’t all rush there and create competition for us!

Host: Thanks for the generous advice.

Host: One fun question before we move on. You mentioned car parks and prata shop economics.

Prata shops can open 24 hours – breakfast, lunch, dinner, supper. Which period of the day is the best for revenue, say at your OG shophouse?

Guna: It depends. You must try to adapt the concept to the location.

My first outlet has a decent breakfast crowd, decent lunch crowd. 2–6 pm is always quiet, so we try to do student meals and things like that.

Some places can’t pull in anyone in the afternoon but have strong dinner crowds.

We try to ensure every time slot isn’t completely empty – at least some income.

We have two 24-hour outlets: Yew Tee (New West) and Rail Mall. After about 1 am, it’s very quiet. We only have two or three staff, so it’s tough.

We put up signs saying “Managed expectations – lower service level”. People understand. At that time they’re not rushing; they’re chilling with friends, having supper.

Finding the sweet spot is difficult. Generally we have strong breakfast, strong lunch, afternoon is weaker, and dinner is always the strongest. Saturdays and Sundays are totally different – breakfast and brunch crowds.

Recently, we’ve been running month-long promotions. So we’ve been crowded almost all the time.

Host: Congratulations – amazing.

Guna: But not necessarily more profit because we did things like 60-cent prata and $1 eight-prata.

Host: For SG60 promos, right? How did you do that?

Guna: We just did it. Sometimes we don’t think too much – just for fun.

We got a Michelin mention, so as a Michelin Plate shop, for the last two years we gave two days of free two pratas. We moved about 40,000 pratas over two days – all free.

No takeaways allowed, but people still come with containers and pack. You can’t stop that.

Host: I think you have a great marketing acumen – promotions, activations, all these ideas.

Guna: A lot of people say that, but we don’t think that deeply. We just do it because it’s fun.

The four free plain pratas for that Liverpool game started with my brother-in-law who runs The Venue. He said, “Liverpool won, can we give something? Four free pratas?” I said, “Sure, why not?” And we just did it.

The media picked it up. Power 98 called, then Class 95. All the Liverpool fans were thrilled with that promotion.

Host: Let’s move to scaling, technology, and innovation.

One thing I saw in the papers recently was the vending machine project. Can you share the story? Why did you do it, how did it happen, and what’s the plan?

Guna: The vending machine isn’t by us – it’s by a vending machine company. Their idea is to put different foods into each deck so you get variety. We’re just the food provider.

For us, the main concern was food safety. We sent everything for lab tests.

The other thing is quality. Her idea is not to keep the food in the machine the whole day – she wants it to move fast. Shelf life may be 24 hours, but the quality drops as things like mee goreng get soggy.

So she tries to remove items after 8–12 hours.

We just said, “Let’s try and see what happens. If it doesn’t work, then we know vending machines aren’t for prata.” At least we learn something.

We’re also doing chilled food with InstaChef. Our biryanis go into their chilled vending machines and get reheated.

We tried mee goreng, murtabak, biryani and more. We found that biryani works best so far, the rest not as much.

We’re blessed that we can take some losses – we have a bigger base. So we try, with a cut-off loss in mind.

Host: I really like that mentality. On technology – what’s the latest tech investment you’ve made in the last year or two that has worked well?

Guna: We started our membership program with Avocado. Shout out to the Avocado guys.

They’re fantastic to work with and push us to do more. We now have more than 20,000 members. We have bronze, silver, and gold tiers. It’s nice to give back to regulars.

Next, we’re trying to form a “mystery audit” team from our own Springleaf members. They’ll audit: how long they were in the queue, whether they were greeted, whether staff asked if they were members, how long they waited for drinks, whether food was hot and crispy, how the overall feel was. Then we reimburse them for a meal.

That’s something fun we’re working on.

We’re also working on our ERP system with Estreme. We just finished the ordering module – all shops order through the system to all suppliers.

About 80% of products come from our central kitchen; 20% from external suppliers. Some suppliers don’t mind getting orders by email; those who mind, we still send the email and also WhatsApp them. It’s not always smooth, but it’s progress.

From there, the accounting will build on, then warehouse management, delivery platform – closing the loop eventually.

That gives us insight into where we’re going wrong, which we might not have seen before.

Novitee, our POS supplier, gave Estreme a gateway to pull data. Shout out to Andrew and Ben. Estreme then does the data analytics.

That shows us where we’re doing well or poorly.

So actually, for a prata place, we’re quite tech-enabled – loyalty, POS, ERP, machines in the kitchen. All our doughs are machine-made and 100% by PWDs.

Going forward, curry making, vegetable processing, etc. are also increasingly done by PWDs. Step by step.

Host: More forward-looking: imagine a relative fresh out of uni wants to start a startup solving a problem in F&B. What’s one area you’d tell them to look at – the “next thing” in F&B innovation?

Guna: I’ve never really sat down to think about it like that. Usually I see a problem and try to solve it.

But I think the next big thing is robotics. Manpower is the biggest headache.

If I could go back, I might have studied mechanical engineering because a lot of our problems are mechanical.

Right now I’m working with another company on dough-flattening. In prata making, the first part – taking the dough and flattening it – takes about 40–45% of the total time. If you can do that mechanically, and the prata man only needs to flip, you save almost 45% of productivity time.

These are the things I like to play with.

In the US, startups are doing automatic pizza machines. Here, we’re thinking of automating prata flattening and flipping – that’s pretty crazy.

Even if you still need someone to flip, if machines handle everything before that, you save time.

Another interesting thing is you can set flattening speed and measure productivity. You’ll know how fast each staff is. They can’t slack because the machine keeps pushing out dough whether they’re ready or not.

Host: Shout out to any startup trying to solve F&B problems: if you want a collaborator to work on hardware for making prata more efficient, you can look for Guna. He’s clearly open to experiments.

Host: Let’s move to the final part of the show – quickfire questions. I’ll ask you some questions; try to answer in a few words, one sentence at most. Ready?

Guna: To be… let’s go.

Host: Who’s someone in the industry you’ve learned a lot from?

Guna: My parents at Casuarina Curry.

Host: What’s one piece of advice you wish you had before starting your first outlet?

Guna: Nothing, actually. I always had good support from my brothers and my dad.

Host: If your kids want to work with you in the business, what would you tell them?

Guna: Work somewhere else first.

Host: If you’re dining in your restaurant, what’s your favourite combo?

Guna: Plain prata, sardine murtabak.

Host: Both in one sitting – can you finish?

Guna: They make a smaller one for me.

Host: So we can go and ask for “Guna Set” right?

Guna: You won’t get it. Bosses are mute.

Host: How should people who are interested in your journey follow you? Do you have a public Instagram or LinkedIn?

Guna: I have LinkedIn, but I’ve never posted. I’m not the type to broadcast, but I love to chat.

I even thought of “An Hour with Springleaf Prata Place Boss” once a week, but I haven’t done it yet. Just a chit-chat session for whoever wants.

I’m also in ACAPS – Association of Catering Professionals. Patrick does a very good job. Vincent Pung is not my mentor officially, but I’ve learned a lot from him.

We may look like competitors, but we’re actually one big happy family. It’s amazing what Patrick does. I’ve been inspired to pass on whatever little we have.

Host: Shout out to Patrick – he was on season one as one of our guests. I don’t know where he gets his energy from.

Final quickfire question – you’ve already answered it:

Are you willing to give one prata session to aspiring F&B founders who want to learn from your journey?

Guna: Sure.

Host: Super. Any parting words for our listeners today?

Guna: If you have a question, you can drop me a message on LinkedIn, I suppose. Maybe it’s time I did a first post – this Brick Mortar Cloud podcast might be my first post.

Host: Super, super awesome. We’ve been here with Guna from Springleaf Prata Place. I really enjoyed this podcast and hopefully Everton wins more games so we get more prata whenever Everton climbs the table.

Guna: Not “hopefully” – when.

Host: When. I’ll take your word for it. Thank you so much, Guna.

Guna: Thank you.

Host: Have a good day.

Guna: Thank you, thank you, thank you.