Brick-Mortar-Cloud Podcast
Season 2 Episode 5:
From Nightlife Queen to Restaurant Mogul: The Calculated Pivot of Sarissa from SJS Group

J: Welcome to the Brick Motor Cloud podcast, where we share scaling stories in FNB and retail. This podcast is produced by StaffAny, supported by Nila Studios. Today, we have Sarisa, CEO, co-founder of SJS Group, credited for bringing leading brands such as Papis taco, Pasta bar, center of the universe, as well as many, many more brands up and coming. 

S: Thank you. Thank you, Janson. So happy to be here. 

J: Awesome, Sarisa. Could you give a quick introduction of your journey and how did you come into FNB? 

S: Yes, I grew up in New York and I started in FNB when I was 14 years old, just working at Italian bakery. I then went to university in D.C., George Washington University. I studied international business and marketing and I worked in hospitality throughout school to pay some bills. And in 2011, I was brought out to Singapore to open Pangea at the Marina Bay Sands, which really grew into what we now know as iconic. And I opened Pangea in New Delhi. I put the deal together for the Chaos Manila deal as well. And then in 2014, I started my own company and the first of that was Bang Bang Nightclub. And Bang Bang Nightclub became embedded in a lot of people’s memories. We had a lot of dancing mascots and sort of reckless abandonment and it was more of a big room feel inside of an intimate room. And then I opened a venue called Lulu’s Lounge, which was very immersive entertainment.

I brought out Employees Only from New York, which was the number four cocktail bar in the world. And I brought it to Amoy Street that did very well. And then I opened up a pasta bar, which is an artisanal handmade, 14 different doughs, different mouth feels and textures for all the dishes. And then I opened Papi’s Tacos, which we now have our fourth location as of last week. And of course, the latest, which is Center of the Universe, which has five different concepts inside of that venue. 

J: It’s super, actually went down to Enzo’s Tacos two weekends ago and had really good service by Rome and amazing dark dress as well as the dry steaks. Really amazing experience. But yeah, so you have been bringing in big names, Pangea, you know, running your own entertainment place like Bang Bang. I think that a lot of the concepts you brought in have been lifestyle entertainment. And then you went into pasta and papi tacos. Is there a story behind that of moving to food and beverage from entertainment? There is. It’s actually interesting because before coming to Singapore, my now partner and I, we actually had more of a restaurant background. And when we moved over in 2011, we opened up Pangea, which became so incredibly popular. And we were almost just maybe associated with that. But the reality was what we did at Pangea was we took restaurant quality service into a nightlife venue. So even though we were in Singapore, we opened up Bang Bang naturally. And then we had nightlife and cocktail or very entertainment focused venues. 

Right. And opening up pasta bar was actually a little bit of a risk because not everybody knew that we had had that background since before 2011. Even more so my partner, he opened up Balthazar in New York. He opened up the standard in Miami. Very like grew up in kitchens in Manhattan. So it’s actually more restaurant for our backgrounds, more restaurants than nightlife. We just happened to have a touchpoint and excel at nightlife in Singapore. So that’s what people knew us as. But pasta bar was a risk. And I actually took a very calculated messaging journey with pasta bar where even though I was we were well well known, our name was our names were recognized in the industry, so to speak. They weren’t recognized. Our names weren’t recognized for restaurants here. And I knew that I was very conscious of that. So what I did was actually in our first initial press releases, I totally scrapped SJS from it completely and just put our chef out there because I didn’t want that to cloud anyone’s perception of what it truly was. And then now, of course, it’s known as an SJS group venue. And now we’re more restaurant focused. We have more restaurants and only really two nightlife venues now.

But at the time, yeah, it took a little while to build, to put our name on the map in terms of restaurants. Right. But I mean, you guys do also have really crazy good events. I think there was a New Orleans band at Whisper Room just a couple of weeks ago. And the nightlife side is still to the end and energy to amp up everything. 

J: So amazing, amazing jobs. Thank you. So what’s the vision for the group right now? Since it’s quite diversified, you have nightlife venues, you have center of the universe, which is so prime and so amazing. You have a steakhouse that is like gunning for, I hope you guys win that. That restaurant, also casual, fast, you know, quick service like Papi’s, where it’s so, you know, reachable by the masses. So what’s the vision for the group? What are guys thinking planning forward? 

S: Yeah, we just opened our fourth Poppy’s Tacos last week. It’s been it’s been doing very well. And I think that for especially for that brand in particular, we are looking at expansion overseas. So particularly this summer, especially we have a number of interested parties in Vietnam, in Indonesia and in Malaysia. So we are exploring getting that brand out of out of Singapore, so to speak. We believe that there’s more room to grow that brand and pop in in Singapore as well. But particularly outside in Southeast Asia. You know, what we found with Poppy’s Tacos, especially and even Mommy’s Tamales, which is another Mexican, it’s a homestyle Mexican restaurant. No tacos or burritos there, but tamale is the only tamale area in Asia. But with those, the flavor profile for Mexican is actually quite similar. It the Asian palate does take very well to it in terms of the spices and just the ingredients. Offers and all sometimes the big to tell those to tell experience sometimes like the times and everything. Exactly. Yes. Yes. So the cuisine itself is very it’s rising in popularity here. And because Poppy’s is actually the first authentic taqueria. So we’re not your full your full on Mexican restaurant where, you know, we’re serving enchiladas all the time. We do have that for our brunches, but we’re really modeled after a Mexican food truck. So that was the idea. We try to keep it simple. We excel at tacos and burritos. And, you know, we want you to just come have two or three tacos, some chips and guac, margaritas and leave, stay if you like and celebrate or if you want to just come for a quick bite. So we do think that brand has a lot of room to grow. 

J: Right. So for the business model wise, how would you explain the business model for this two varying different concept? One is on the nightlife side of things, and it’s a bit more like premium. And there’s this more accessible taco, taqueria kind of concept. Yeah. Like how’s the business model like? Is it like, you know, looking for more turns, looking for mass, looking for maybe expansion to the heartlands? Like is there is there a business model that you are trying to do with Papi’s? 

S: OK, yes. So yes. So Poppy’s tacos, when we first opened in 2018, we took a little hole in the wall spot on Sia Street, where the Raffles Hotel was actually not even opened. And our business model with that was, you know, low risk. Let’s see how the community takes to it. It grew. It did well. So we grew very organically. You know, the business model for Poppy’s is low overhead. So we’re very cautious of our rentals, our fixed costs. But more importantly, the way that we’ve maneuvered since post-COVID particularly is I’ve noticed a trend in going and meeting people where they are. So because of now, there’s work from home. People are more flexible.

People tend to maybe have a little bit less friends, a little bit more insular. Probably cut down on some and some people during COVID. We all did. Right. Our groups, our groups sort of shrunk. So we were very comfortable at home. You know, Netflix has us. Right. So we meet people where they are, especially in Singapore, particularly where there is the emergence of new MRT stations. And so we try to go where people are living. And that is where how we’ve grown since basically since 2023. That’s really awesome. And in this model with low overheads and lower fixed costs over it’s too high. I mean, Singapore, right. Right. It’s crazy, right. And processing the entire operation like clockwork. 

J: Do you guys like operate like a central kitchen production? Or like how does that work?

S: Yeah. So yes and no. So we do use one of our large kitchens. We have a larger kitchen at Tanjong Pagar, for example, and we use that as our central kitchen. The thing is, I can’t wrap my head around a central kitchen right now because it’s rent without any revenue output. 

And you’d be very surprised that they’re actually not as cheap as you would think. They are actually quite expensive. 

S: So at that point, with four outlets, we’re not necessarily there yet. We don’t need it right now. I do hope to get to a point where we do need it. But at four outlets, we have our central kitchen at Tanjong Pagar and everything comes out from there. 

J: Of course, Pasta bar is working with a chef that you work very closely to represent and helm the business. Are you guys looking to invest in more brands and scale the other concepts that is in SGS group? 

S: Yeah, well, Papi’s Tacos, our partner is Poppy. So Mauricio Espinoza from Central Mexico. So I do believe so in that concept and in Mami’s Tamales, we are partners with Maribel. She’s also Mexican. She’s Singaporean now, but she’s from Mexico. So, look, we do understand the importance of having strategic partnerships in that regard. And that so far has worked very well for us. Right. 

J: So in the next expedition, the next concept, likely to be with someone you trust, a chef owner or like a partner that could bring the brands together and SGS as a group, we’re able to elevate, make one plus one more than two. Is that the direction of the group? 

S: Yeah, I think that when it’s the brands, it depends on what the brand’s story is. I think that when you’re looking for me personally, I believe when you when you’re looking at something that but that has an authenticity or ethnicity to it, such as Mexican or even Chinese. It’s about somebody taking ownership. It’s also the story behind it. It’s always important. 

J: Exactly.

S: And also how that person sees that they want to contribute. They’re dedicated to it because the reality is, Janson, a lot of times now that I’ve noticed over the past three years is a lot of these super talented chefs, they’re actually not in the kitchen. They’re working. They’re doing kind of this fractional work where they’re either consulting or overseeing. So it also doesn’t necessarily mean having a partner in that regard doesn’t necessarily mean that that chef is going to be on the line.

But I do think it’s important to get somebody that buys into what your vision of the restaurant is, how that fits into the current framework of what’s going on in the market and how they can contribute. 

J: Super, super. I like the philosophy and the thinking behind authenticity brand, working together with partners and scale forward and choosing the right partner is the most important thing. And of course, bring empathy, understanding that some chefs might be fractional, some might be more online and some might be on the kitchen ground, some may not and finding the best permutation and the group seems like a group has a good run in being pretty successful in opening more and expanding overseas and all. But this podcast is all about challenges and triumphs both at the same time. So what’s the biggest challenge that you guys recently had to overcome outside of covid.

S: OK, OK. Outside of covid, I’ve got staffany. 

J: Thanks for the shout out 

S: Manpower is a challenge that you guys are trying to look at. It’s the biggest challenge. It’s happening all over the world. I think we all hear it. It’s it’s always been a very big struggle in Singapore, particularly just because of population. Right. I mean, we are very tiny, tiny little island and manpower. Yes, after covid, we all know it is a huge, huge challenge.

There are ways that we’re trying to work around it, but it does create a lot of internal pressure. You know, everything you read is basically true. 

J: So how did the group try to overcome that? Because of course, everybody in the industry is facing the same crunch. Retention is the issue. Labor costs is going up. Some people just don’t have the heart to serve and just treat it like a like a job. Right. So how are you guys doing at a group level? Like, what are some ways you do to to beat the same trial?

S: Yeah, well, what we’re what we’re trying to do is cut back on the reliance as much as we can, of course, especially in the front of house. Right. So it’s that’s easier to do at a place like Poppy’s Tacos, where we can have the QR codes ordering and it doesn’t take away from the experience. Right. You’re not going to Poppy’s Tacos to have an amazing service experience. You’re going there because it’s fun. It’s casual.

And then in our in our other venues where there are different standards of service, that people have expectations of service that people have, we tend to hire better, but fewer, if that makes sense. So higher level and more skilled, but less. 

J: That really echoes what Andrew was saying in our last episode. He’s saying that instead of having an organization chart of 10 people, he challenged the team. Can we do it? But better people. Right. More, of course, a better salary at a pay, but higher quality people. You guys do the same in terms of planning people in HR and stuff. 

S: Yes. Yes, for sure. Also, awesome. Awesome. And apart from getting the right people, better people and of course, automation, you know

J: What other things are you guys embarking on? Is there any other initiatives that a group is taking? 

S: I’m just holding out for for A.I. to catch up, man. And now everything can be more automated. Right. Workflows both front of house, back of house. But the thing is, it’s very manual business. So as much as we could say that there’s tech out there, the reality is, is that when it comes to chopping onions and cooking a steak correctly and bringing a plate over, I mean, it’s just it’s a manual business. That’s just how it is. So until there is something that really moves the needle in that regard, I think that this is just the reality that we’re in, unfortunately. 

J: Right. So we’re moving to one of the more popular segments on industry insights as well as technology. Since you’re talking about AI and using tools, are you guys a metric business? Like, do you guys measure certain KPIs on a week by week, month by month basis? And if so, what are some metrics that a restaurant or yourself would care a lot about? Oh, I care a lot about. 

S: Yeah, definitely. You have to track always current revenue, projected revenue, food cost and staff costs. Those are the big ones. Right. Because the thing is, is that if you if you have an if you have, say, say the month of April and your projected revenue is lower, then you actually have to have your COGS be adjusted. Exactly. So all of those things are tracked daily, weekly. 

J: Absolutely. Right. So daily and weekly, could you share a bit more? Do you have like a report that your outlet managers have to submit? 

S: Oh, yeah, absolutely. So our we have nightly logs for every single one of our venues. So every morning I wake up to, I mean, probably 10, 10 different logs. Yeah. So that that’s more for our managers to give us the internal dialogue of what happened with if there was anything sent back and then what happened. And if anybody was happy, particularly happy with service or bad or sad about or angry with something or displeased. And those are things for us to know. That’s the avenue for them to tell us something that happened before we have to find out on Google. Right. And also about any internal issues with staff or a lot of MCs or anything. That’s the avenue. As far as all of the others, our kitchen does have to enter their costings and our managers have to enter the costings for front of house payroll. I mean, all of those things, everyone is tracking. And then what we’re doing is we’re basically looking at it from a from a high level point of view. 

J: Got it. For businesses that are trying to operate more quick service like businesses or more, I’ll say, affordable mass market, multiple turns. Maybe you say three four turns at least in a dining session. What kind of food costs should they aim for and what kind of labor costs have you seen people try to strive for? I mean, not exactly always hitting the goals, but like what some of the goals that you said. 

S: Yeah, I would say so. I would say for for a fast casual. I’ll talk. I’ll speak fast casual. You definitely want your cost of goods to. I mean, your food costs to be below 30 percent. Right. And you ideally want your labor costs to not exceed 30 percent. Maximum 33 percent. That was always you always wanted 30 percent. But in Singapore, you always get 33 percent mostly. But look, these days when it comes to labor costs, it’s just something that, you know, that’s gone up. Right. Significantly those ideal percentages, I would say, are very rarely being hit. 

J: How is it different from, let’s say, like Whisper Room, for example, where it’s a lot more like premium? Like how do that ratios change in terms of KPIs and all? 

S: Well, when you have a mostly food, when you have mostly beverage service, your margins, your margins are a lot better for sure. And then. But yes, we also have the entertainment costs. Right. But I think that it just look, it depends. Can I have four Whisper Rooms in Singapore? No. Right. So for overall point of view. But the good thing about something like Poppy’s Tacos is, you know, we are able to keep our labor costs around that. But when you start to get into a more premium dining service experience, like you see these fine dining, you know, I personally don’t have I don’t have a Michelin restaurant, unfortunately. 

So I think it’s all about balancing, you know, where you want your business model to be. And I think Poppy’s Tacos, we could still keep our costs down and not and not sacrifice the experience. We don’t really have that ability in a place safer like Enso, which is a little bit more fine dining and Whisper Room. We do have, you know, I would say all of our costs are lower. But yes, of course, we have jazz bands and we have DJs. So that’s where we get a little bit. We have those costs are higher. Right. So in summary, in the more entertainment and more nightlife and drinks places, the Cox could go down in terms of the food or drinks costs. But the labor costs and the entertainment costs will go up right. So it balances that to the reverse. 

J: That’s awesome. And good to hear that the group is so much metrical and all. How about areas like a decision on opening a new outlet? Do you guys think of that post profitability or like, for example, hey, this concept is doing well, profitable. And then we open. Are you guys more like it’s looking like it’s doing well. There’s like lines forming. That’s go. Like how do you think about it? How do you think about expanding your venue? Like when do you open the fifth outlet of Papi’s, for example? Is it when the fourth doing well, that’s good. The fifth. 

S: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, look, definitely we want the fourth to stabilize first before we even think we’re already looking at our fifth. But it’s actually it’s for a new it’s for a new complex happening down down the road. But look, that does need to stabilize. We grow puppies very organically. So we’re not a tech company with VC money. So it is it is what it is. So if so they all have to stabilize and be profitable and be doing well for us to even think about expanding. And then when we think about expanding, we we look at where people are living, where would ideally like to expand. And then we’re very cautious with with who we choose as a landlord. We choose our landlords. We don’t they don’t choose us. We choose them. And then we go after the spaces that we want at the rent that we feel comfortable, not only now, but 10 years from now. So whatever rent I’m getting today, I know I’m going to negotiate that it’s still palatable in 10 years so that I’m not caught off guard. So in this case, there’s a huge question that most people have a debate and dilemma. 

J: Do you then consider places that may have a lesser footfall, but more affordable rent for the next 10 years? Or would you choose a place where the rent is the best and who was the best? Like, like, how do you make that decision? 

S: Yeah, I know it is. It is tough. But the thing is also with with footfall is that we also have to look at beverage spend because a lot of times when you have great footfall, for example, in malls, people aren’t necessarily having two or three, one or two margaritas. So what works for Poppy’s is going where people are really living so that they’re coming there. And the good thing is, is that Poppy’s does have a very strong brand following now. So it’s recognized. We can make a lot of noise when we do open so people will know where we are. And so we have that ability to sort of be busy right away. But in terms of footfall, yeah, look, we are offered. I get emails all the time about about news bases and from from agents. But we’ve been offered some really fabulous locations.

But do I think that people are going to have drinks there? I don’t think so. So that that’s that also is is how we we work. That’s a really good learning because I think you’re the first guest that shared that concept. But if you are FNB venue that has a huge, I would say, brand on beverages that of course, the margaritas are great. And you want people to have a few more drinks, then footfall may not be the most important factor. I think I think that’s a very good summary. And to me, I wish someone told me that. And, you know, when we talk about choosing where to open and stuff like that, we can have a better thought. Hey, fast footfall, maybe more food and more tech to go kind of stuff and smaller food for more drinks. We can actually make them stay and consume more units. 

J: That’s amazing. Amazing. Sharing moving on the digital transformation side, I thought from the metrics. What’s the latest digital transformation project that you have embarked on? 

S: Well, embarking on my own, but to be continued, I’ll come back to you when I have it. But the digital transformation product, I mean, we look we’re always looking at ways to make things easier and better for for people on the ground and also for the the guest facing experience. So so we I would say the biggest one that’s sort of taken over since Covid is definitely seven rooms.

They’ve just they’ve just capitalized on all of this. So, you know, when it comes to sending out messages and communicating with guests and getting feedback, that internal feedback mechanism, I mean, all of that has been very, very helpful. It’s come at a cost, but it’s very helpful. Pay what you get is high quality. It’s a good product. And, you know, I think I think it’s a good investment. 

J: Do you also use then seven rooms for the other concepts like pasta bar? 

S: Yes. All of them. Yes, absolutely. 

J: Super awesome. Shout out to the team at seven rooms. You got a happy customer over here. Awesome. If you were to think a little bit about any other areas that you hope to see, you know, a company comes out and now you’re wearing a head of an investor or VC. What do you hope tech startups would solve for F&P? What’s an area that you say, take my money, solve that problem for me? You know, like, is there anything that you would think of? 

S: Yes, there is. I actually I actually have a thought that I’m sitting on. So I’m not going to I’m not I’m not going to tell you yet because I don’t want to do it yourself as well. Yeah. But but yes, there is something that I’ve actually been eating me up for about three or four years. And I think I can finally solve this problem now. But I think that it just look, a lot of tech for F&B is built by people from tech. They are not from F&B. They are not from F&B. I think those were those worlds need to really merge. You really need to have somebody that has been in the trenches that also understands the personalities of people that are on the floor and in the kitchen. And the reality is, look, I I’m on the I’ve been on the floor. I was on the floor for many more more years than I wasn’t. Right. So I understand the personalities of people on the floor. And let me tell you, they don’t want to use a computer. They’re not they’re not interested in tech. They’re highly intuitive. They’re very empathetic. They’re creative. They’re sensitive. They’re all these things which makes them either very good at what they do and stick with what they’re doing. However, the last thing that they want to do is learn another tech solution. And if they have, you know, three MCs, the kitchen is short, two people, three suppliers didn’t show up with their goods. They don’t have time to worry about how to enter data for to use the data later on. So I always joke that restaurant people, we would just love FNB people. We just love reservation books that you could just like write something down. I mean, there’s something in Manhattan. There’s a restaurant in Manhattan. They only use a reservation book. And it’s just like it’s so such a beautiful thing. But nothing has really met FNB people where they are in terms of how they are living and working, how they’re working every day. And what their actual life is like versus what could actually be utilized for that, what actually could be useful towards them and make their everyday lives easier or more profitable. Right. So I think that’s the next solution. So brainstorming over here, a lot of the user experience, something like chat GPT, right, instead of learning a new tech for them on clicking the buttons and sending a report. Hey, the report didn’t come. Could you fill up the report for me? And something happens at the back, right? Like agent down there might be really exciting because I agree. If you are used to operate a bar, sticky fingers and I totally understand the people in FNB, they are here for the people. They’re here for the passion. People always joke. If you want to screw a friend up, I seem to start a FNB business without a passion. Right. That’s one of the most cut short business to be in. And the people that try for people that really are passionate for the industry, you must have a heart and to serve.

J: I can’t agree more if your statement. Products need to be more intuitive and designed by the end users. Super. Awesome. Moving on to the final area, which is our quick fire question. So I see a question and you try to answer as quick as you can. OK. Andrew gave like two sentence. So keep it like two sentence is fine. All right. So are you ready? I’m ready. All right. So who is someone in the industry whom you’ve learned a lot from?

S: Keith McNally, 

J: Can you share a little bit more about why is he such an impactful guy? 

S: Keith McNally, he is the founder of Balthazar in New York. He is a man. He really brought the movie how to how to have a world that you step into that that is he made restaurants look like movie sets. 

J: Super. What’s one piece of advice that you hope someone has given you before you started your first FNB outlet?

S: Buckle up. Buckle up. 

J: Very good. If your kid would like to join you in a business, what is something you say to him or her? 

S: No. No. Even please, I love to work in the bar. No. Look, I look, I want her to learn some grit, right. And some resilience. And I think that that this is the best interest industry to do that in for sure. So we’ll see if she likes it. I won’t I won’t push her towards it. We’ll see. 

J: Right. Right. If you were to dine in your restaurant, what’s your go to set an item that we all must try? 

S: Oh, which one which restaurant choose the first on mine tacos, the fish tacos, for sure. For sure. Pasta bar, the the carbonara. It’s like the only authentic carbonara in Singapore. And and so steakhouse, I would say the, you know, definitely the press sushi. 

J: You know, if someone would like to follow your journey and your brand, what’s the best way they should follow you? 

S: I’m on LinkedIn. So it’s a shorts and I’m on Instagram. 

J: last question on quick fire is, are you willing to offer a mentorship session for somebody that’s really keen about FNB and want to start their own brand? 

S: Absolutely. Of course. I’ve actually done that before. Thank you so much. Awesome. So, so we said we are coming to the end of our podcast. 

J: I’d like to ask if you have any final advice and commentaries for the people listening to our show. 

S: My advice would be, you know, just because something looks easy, any industry, any industry, the tech industry, the movie industry, the restaurant industry, the health care industry, just because something looks easy, but it’s not assumed that it is.

If you want to be successful in an industry, you’re just going to have to continually learn every day and you’ll probably get to have some blind spots. But if you could push through to through those because you’re you’re passionate and you believe in yourself and you could do it. 

J: Super. So on my side, I just want to say for the record, I’m extremely appreciative for Sarisa for her time without her leading brands like Pangea in the past, Bang Bang and today, Koto and Papi’s Tacos. She really created experience that I really enjoy and and is part of my commentaries of dining summer concepts. So thank you so much for being in Singapore and expanding over here. Bring more brands to more amazing stuff. So thank you so much. 

S: I really appreciate it. 

J: Super. See you around. 

S: All right. Thanks, Janssen.